22.00.0034: The classes of to-do

I would be happy to send my calendar and to do list if its of any use?

I got enough on mine! :stuck_out_tongue:

:rofl: for inspiration, although you can take on my calendar and to do list if you like :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Actually an interesting idea. Seeing other peopleā€™s stuff. Iā€™d want it to be anonymised. Like a public ā€˜drop boxā€™ in the not-a-cloud-hosting-service sense.

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Ok how would I share it anonymised and in the format youā€™d like? Iā€™m not very techy!

yeah, interesting idea, and Iā€™d be happy to contribute too. Iā€™m not sure how it would be done though ā€¦ the details of todos and tasks are so specific to both the content and the tools being used.

However, maybe the structure is valuable in itself. What are the patterns, and what tags and symbols and such do people use. So screenshots with lots of blur or blackout might work.

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Hold the thought, Iā€™m not ready for it. But Iā€™ll ping you if the day comes. Appreciate the offer.

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I agree and disagree. Iā€™ll keep my comment here brief.

Both JD and to-do lists largely exist to do the exact same thing. Wrangle the infinite into organized domains, and then give the user the freedom to go through life dealing with domains rather than individual tasks. A to-do list organized by deadlines is based on time, organized by willingness-to-engage like Mark Forster suggests is secretly organized by available energy, or organized by next-actionable-task like David Allen is organized by location.

I think a study into the philosophy of how organization of tasks and organization of JD overlap can lead to understanding principles of organization and then refining JD. For that, I hope Johnny doesnā€™t give up on it. Especially because so much of what we store as files is for the dream of ā€œone day this will be useful to meā€. Otherwise we just delete the files.

That said, I agree that Johnny is a person weā€™re all waiting on more words from re: organizing file-systems so tangents that take up his time are worth pointing out. :slight_smile:

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@cobblepot , thanks for the reminder that task management is a very complex area to figure out! I agree that layering the two together can have higher-order effects which are difficult to predict. For example, I have been trying a set of ten task-management tags for the past two weeks; at first, I thought I had found the perfect solution, but Iā€™m already noticing where my set of tags is starting to feel inadequate.

Just a quick observation. I was watching todayā€™s video and at this timestamp it struck me: Task management has been in scope for Johnny Decimal since the beginning! A very clear articulation of how having your stuff organised can be crucial to knowing what to do next.

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With time I use JD system only for storing files or notes in my index.
I donā€™t use it anymore for To-Do or mail because I donā€™t consider them like storage.

So in both I have an inbox, 2-3 lists or folders, an archive folder for emails I donā€™t want to delete.

All other To-Do item or emails are deleted as soon as possible.

My main influence is the book ā€˜Four Thousand Weeksā€™ - by Oliver Burkeman.

A great reading for me to become aware of stopping wanting to find a better system, which is time consuming and in the end always make it more complex.

Thanks for this perspective, @Mentat. I havenā€™t read Oliver Burkemanā€™s book, but I do read his newsletter with great interest. My experience has certainly been a yoyo ā€“ I alternate between letting go Burkeman-style and more rigid Cal Newport style time-block planning. Both approaches help me at different points in the flip-flop cycle, and I havenā€™t found the balance in the middle yet.

I thought Calā€™s commentary on this tension in this podcast episode was helpful, if fairly obvious: TLDR; we should be trying to make the world more like a place where Oliverā€™s approach would work for everybody ā€“ but in the meantime, sometimes we might need some more rigid external disciplines.

Iā€™d be interested to hear more about the evolution of your approach. I think I see my JD system as a living documentation of all the things Iā€™m working on in my life, and so I feel itā€™s appropriate to tag the things themselves to indicate todo status. I was going to share this when I had gotten some more experience with it, but itā€™s relevant here:

I have small set of tags (ten, some of which have multiple values allowed) which I sprinkle in the notes in my JD system. For example:

:do=[able|next|ing|ne]:
:on=DATE:
:with=PERSON|CONTEXT:
:up: (as in upgrade, improve)
:tip: (as in, pick up here when next working on this thing)

The idea is that these are like post-its Iā€™d stick by the kitchen door to remind me of errands, and which I remove when the errand is done.
thereā€™s still some wrinkles, but Iā€™m slowly figuring out if and how this works. The key is that itā€™s a closed set, to keep it from growing indefinitely. Also key is that I am working in plain-text files all day long anyways; I can do a full-text search for these tags through my notes (in JD system) and my code (outside JD system) in one interface. And also that I use it as it fits, and donā€™t worry too much about stale tags; itā€™s a way to reasure my brain that I can find the latest status of things, and context will make it clear when tags are no longer relevant. Finally, my partner is slowly getting on board with a shared JD system, and I think this can function as a very low-tech shared task management system via synced files.

Hi @hans
Thank you for your very detailed post. I understand your system and I find it very clever.
I also have a long use of unix and Linux systems and the purely textual approach is part of the philosophy. So I was in the same approach.

I will try to describe what made me change but before that the biggest lesson is that there is no single approach but choices of appropriation of methods.

My first observation was that I was too much in the constant accumulation of knowledge about productivity methods and tools. Consequences I wasted a lot of time consuming, analyzing, adapting and rebooting my personal system.

Second observation, I accumulated tasks, notes, bookmarks, books, filesā€¦ which in the end were not useful to me, took me time to organize and maintain and came to drown the essential things (yes, I have been adhered to minimalism for more than 15 years)

Third observation the tendency to become more complex. As soon as we have a particular case, a repetitive task I tend to want to classify and automate what takes more time and mental load.

So I started from these observations to set myself rules.

  • Use JD index to reference files and notes (see my post here)
  • Use the simplest tools possible and included in my basic environment (Apple notes, Finder, remindersā€¦)
  • Sell my soul to the Apple ecosystem (I wonā€™t develop herešŸ™ƒ)
  • Mercilessly delete all that is superfluous to keep only what is really valuable. Immediately or after a certain time (for example, I have an annual routine or I delete a full year of 6-year-old personal files)
  • Define if a tool is a temporary storage or process storage tool.

It was on this last point that I lightened my use of JD.
For storage tools I use JD at different levels.
Classically AC.ID for filesystems (cloud, local or external drive, NASā€¦). Either at the AC level for other tools (Web browser, Apple Podcasts, ebook reader, Photosā€¦)
Can you tell me that the email and the To-Do list can have the same approach? Yes, if I donā€™t systematically delete the elements

For emails I delete by default, if I have something to do with the email, either I do it right away if less than 2 minutes or I put it in a ā€œin progressā€ directory until it is solved. Last option I want to keep this email, I place it in ā€œarchivesā€. The archives are processed every month, I delete messages more than three years old. And if at the end of the end I want to keep this message that is dear to me, I place it in my ā€œto keepā€ directory.

Of course if the email has important information I put it in my notes to the right AC.ID.

For my todo list I use Olivier Bukermanā€™s approach with an open list in which I place all the tasks that go through my head. Every month I come back to them to delete them and organize them by AC sections.

I then have a list for all the routines that are recurring (routines of the week, month, quarter of the year, recurring maintenance, health tasksā€¦) also classified by AC sections.

Then I have the closed list in which I put 2 to 3 objectives/projects or tasks maximum. This is what I make progress on a daily basis. I only focus on it.

For the small tasks of the programmed daily life either it is a programmed task or these in my calendar.

So every day I set the tasks of the ā€œtodayā€ list and then I organize my time around the tasks of my closed list.

Precision, my closed list may have a project or a broad objective. The details of my plans with all the corresponding subtasks are stored in my notes in my JD Index.

Edit: precision #2 I use it in 2 distinct context, personal and professional. Donā€™t mix the two.

So I found that Olivier Bukermanā€™s book reasoned with my state of mind about what productivity and time management should be. Moreover, I notice that a movement is emerging about Slow productivity (C. Newportā€™s new book but didnā€™t read it).

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@mentat, thank you very much for this lengthy reply. It has given me pause for thought. I will return to this when I have time. For now, see here for an example of how Iā€™m stuck in the trap of endless configuration. Itā€™s very insiduous; even when you think youā€™re simplifying, you might still be making things harder for yourself :wink:

more later.

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Hi @hans

Yes, I understand this state well. Even if my way seems simple and logical to me now, it took me a lot of time and tested far too many things before I got to this point.

Itā€™s interesting to see that for years I also used the commands and software you quote. I was an intensive user of Archlinux (and I must say that ā€˜rangerā€™ was one of the favorite applications).

I would add a constraint to this approach that does not necessarily apply to your case: the need to collaborate.

Indeed, in my personal case, I think of my system from now on at the level of my family. For their part, it is therefore necessary to use common tools, simple mechanisms and an easy-to-use organization.

If I resume, for example, my photo organization. It was on my NAS, which had to be started, then synchronized the files via an app and then use image viewing software by browsing directories sorted by year and month.
Now that I have sold my soul to Appleā€™s ecosystem (also possible with Google) we use Apple Photos which takes care of storage, synchronization, and display. We share our photos either in common or private, everyone creates albums according to their personal organization (for me I can use my JDex).

And the last thing that seems very important to me is the transmission of the system. If tomorrow I disappear all my digital environment is easily transmissible and usable in the state to my loved ones.

So I integrated them into my approach. We use the same applications, our common files are based on my JDex architecture, for the rest they do as they want. Even if I give them advice and show them that organizing their files with JD Index would be much more effective :slightly_smiling_face:

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In my continuing effort to figure out a better way to manage ā€˜to-doā€™-like tasks,[1] Iā€™ve started an experiment.

At the end of every day, I commit to spending 30 minutes ā€˜managingā€™ my to-do system. If thereā€™s stuff to-do, I do it. In order of importance and date.

If there isnā€™t, I go through old items and tidy them up. Or I look at what remains and make sure itā€™s good and neat and in the right bucket and has the right dates etc.

Obviously this is an end of the day task, not a start of the day. Use your fresh brain for real work. Use your tired brain for this.

My realisation was that I tend to knock off at, say, 17:00. During the day, this stuff never gets a look-in. Iā€™m busy! With real work! And then you work right up to your knock-off time because youā€™re sure the thing youā€™re doing is urgent or that youā€™ll get it finished.

Well it isnā€™t, and you wonā€™t. So just take half an hour, ā€˜finishā€™ early, and pay attention to this stuff. Because your overall quality of life will improve. Youā€™ll be less stressed because you didnā€™t do any of that stuff that you never get to.

Thatā€™s it. Thatā€™s the tip: spend half an hour doing a thing that you donā€™t want to do. Iā€™m about a week in and I tell you what, itā€™s life changing.

But how are you managing those tasks?

Right now, using the venerable Things. Itā€™s so nice.

Iā€™m not in a position to share the details yet, but Iā€™m working on it.


  1. Which I donā€™t call ā€˜to-dosā€™ as Iā€™m sure that many of the things that we record in our to-do list arenā€™t things to do: theyā€™re just things we might like to do, or ideas for things, or thoughts, or dreams, or ideas that we had that really didnā€™t need to be written down, we just didnā€™t know that at the time. ā†©ļøŽ

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