# Suggestions box 📥 **URL:** \ **Category:** Small Business System\ **Created:** [November 9, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924 "2024-11-09T04:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/1 "2024-11-09T04:58:43Z")
This thread is for suggestions related to the system. ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 10:10am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/2 "2024-11-11T10:10:16Z")
This is really a question for a subcategory which hasn’t been released yet: Since I can’t wait to use the Standardized Structure, I’m wondering about where you’re thinking a list of projects for clients would go. in `10-19` or` 20-29`? I’m guessing `10-19`, because `20-29` has been identified as ‘My Product’, and keeping track of what you’ve done for whom is just admin. A first guess is that there will be a category in `10-19` for ‘Projects’. Or, more likely, an ID under a yet-to-be-determined category. This is something I need to get organised RIGHT NOW! Like, half an hour ago. And I’ve always made a mess of this because I overthink it (creating a whole normalized structure, really). So if the proprietor would like to drop a hint what his thinking is, I can maybe anticipate that with where I put this for now. And any advice from others is also greatly appreciated, and we can move these comments to the right place when it appears. I’m aware of the discussions on this topic elsewhere on the forum, but my question is really where you’re thinking this will end up in the _business_ system numbering. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/3 "2024-11-11T18:35:44Z")
Will talk to Lucy about this today and get back to you asap. Edit: clarifying question. So this is a list of future/planned/quoted projects for a specific client? Assuming then you’d have more of these such clients in the future. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/4 "2024-11-11T19:16:58Z")
Initial response: it’ll be in the `20-29`s. `10-19` is **internal** company admin. You can set a company up and be compliant and file taxes _and never have a product or a customer_. `20-29` is your customers (including those you haven’t won yet), marketing (to those not-yet-customers), and product (which makes no sense without someone to sell it to) including the research, building of said product(s), and selling it either directly, through channels, etc. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/5 "2024-11-12T05:51:51Z")
![money](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/uploads/default/original/2X/3/325aa8bc14cd9b8cf51ba2bc19bf6517a7168759.jpeg) Working thoughts, I can see the categories in the 20s being _something like_: - `21 Channels` - `22 Products` - `23 Customers` - `24 Marketing, advertising, & communications` This keeps the flow of things. Per the dotted line through the middle of the diagram: - You earn money, - via a payment processor, - both of which live in `13 Money` - linked to a `channel`, - where you sold a `product`, - to a `customer`, - because you convinced them to buy it with your `marketing`. # What type of business are you? The shape of `20-29` will change depending on the type of business you run. - **You sell something physical**. - POP Canberra (a local tourist/novelty store). - Farmer. - Restaurant. - **You sell a physical service, but the primary product isn’t a physical thing**. - Hairdressing salon. - Although you _might_ still sell some stuff, e.g. fancy shampoo. - Gardener. - Masseuse. - PT. - Cleaner. - Outdoor adventure. - Driver. - This isn’t just a service as it’s impossible to do remotely. Being in a physical thing – the car – is integral. - **You sell a service**. - Adam the financial advisor. - Celebrant. - You could, theoretically (if the law allowed), do this remotely. - Teacher/tutor. - Accountant. - Consultant geologist (Lucy’s dad). - **You provide a digital product**. - When we sold the JD workbook. - It’s a thing, but it’s not physical: so no stocking, manufacturing, etc. - Decimal.Business. It’s all digital. For some of these, the ‘freelancer pattern’, i.e. [expand an area](https://jdcm.al/13.21/) might be more appropriate in some sections, e.g. customers. TBC! HTH? TTFN. ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 9:08am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/6 "2024-11-12T09:08:54Z")
thanks! Pre-script: (opposite of a Postscript?) Don’t let this derail too much, but it’s great to get a preview of your thought process. Really helps me to start thinking in that direction too. And it’s comforting to see that you’re also breaking it all down into small pieces, I guess I just hadn’t found the right model yet. Oh, and sorry for the all-caps. I didn’t mean to come across as shouting. > [@johnnydecimal](#): > > So this is a list of future/planned/quoted projects for a specific client? Assuming then you’d have more of these such clients in the future. Future and ongoing and past projects for a specific client. These need to have IDs so that I can reference them easily from time tracking, note-taking, etc. I’ve taken the categories you named and tested it out with my current real situation (names changed). I came up with this, with the addition of another category for ‘sales’ . ```plaintext . ├── 20 Meta ├── 21 Channels │ └── 21.11_Direct sales (invoices emailed to clients manually) │ └── INV-23yc-1a0 PAYED 23t1-2a6 moneyman.com.pdf ├── 22 What I offer (Products and Services) │ └── Static websites │ └── Web service integrations ├── 23 Sales - Closing Deals on Products and Services Delivered │ └── 23t1-2a6 COMPLETED website for ADMM AKA moneyman.com #then a year later ... │ └── 24z3-1a0 QUOTED payment processing website integration for ADMM AKA moneyman.com-payments │ └── 24z3-1a1 EXPLORATORY website for Zoe's Garden Design AKA greenzoe.com ├── 24 Customers │ └── 24x1-2a5 Adam the Money Man AKA ADMM │ └── 24x1-2a6 PROSPECTIVE Zoe's Garden Design ├── 25 Marketing, advertising and communications ``` `Sales` could also be called `Projects`. If this is ‘admin’, though, then we’re primarily interested in tracking the money. I can now use the ID of the **project** in `23 Sales` everywhere: in emails, in my notes, in the name of the git repository with the website’s code, in invoices so it show up in `21 Channels`. I can also use the project alias (the part after `AKA`). To fully normalize this, category 24 might be called `Relations` because you could have companies that are both suppliers and customers. **QUESTION ANSWERED: I think that does it for me, for now, while I await the final revelation.** A few more thoughts on the thoughts you shared: > [@johnnydecimal](#): > > The shape of `20-29` will change depending on the type of business you run. Lots of businesses offer multiple kinds of things. But I presume business.decimal can be progressively expanded in this regard too. In my `Channels` above, I start out providing pure services in the Netherlands, so all my clients pay via direct bank transfer. Then I start offering hosting services (in some parallel universe where I’ve lost my mind. Maybe instead: I start offering workshops that people can sign up for), so I start using a payment processor and automatic invoicing. That would be `21.12 Online Payment Processors`. And each subsequent ID would be the next step I needed as my business scales. Regarding putting the invoice under `Channels`: that makes sense to me looking at your diagram, because if I have automatic payment processors they’ll come in in one place (as a CSV download, perhaps), and not within the project folder. Quotes/proposals, _could_ go under the project folder, but also under `24 Communications`. And in fact, a business might very well have automatic quoting (e.g. a steel cutter business provides a fully automated (initial) quote based on an uploaded drawing). So here, too, the quotes documents might be coming in from some online provider in a stream or in bulk download, so it would make sense that they go under ‘communications’. **This relates to my question: I just need to know where to go/look to define/reference a project and/or a customer.** So in my mind, `23 Sales` and `24 Customers` can be pretty minimal. Just the ID, contact details, and whatever other notes. But in my experience, **not having that keeps me from doing effective administration** because I get duplicates and inconsistency. > [@johnnydecimal](#): > > Celebrant. > > - You could, theoretically (if the law allowed), do this remotely. It just so happens that yesterday, my wife talked to a woman who, today, is witness _via Zoom_ at her son’s marriage, her son and daughter-in-law being in Turkey and the marriage taking place in U.S. jurisdiction … ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 9:15am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/7 "2024-11-12T09:15:29Z")
> [@johnnydecimal](#): > > You can set a company up and be compliant and file taxes _and never have a product or a customer_. yes, and buy all the printers and comfy chairs for yourself 😆 No but seriously, I like how you guys have defined this boundary. ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 10:13am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/8 "2024-11-12T10:13:02Z")
Final addendum: I realize a lot of this could probably shift a level down, to IDs. E.g.: ```plaintext ├── 22 My Work │ └── 22.10 ■ What I Offer │ └── 22.11 Products │ └── 22.12 Services │ └── Static Websites │ └── 22.20 ■ Sales │ └── 22.21 Product sales in Store -- occasional or anonymous customers │ └── ... │ └── 22.21 Projects -- Working with Clients │ └── 23t1-2a6 COMPLETED website for ADMM AKA moneyman.com ├── 23 Customers ``` ---
**Author:** ![clappingcactus](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/clappingcactus/32/502_2.png) [@clappingcactus](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/clappingcactus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/9 "2024-11-13T13:22:48Z")
I’m a big fan of how the membership pdf has all relevant links, including a link to my account sign-in. I think a solid JD system is self-sustaining, and being able to store a pdf that organizes my interaction with decimal.business from within the folder I have it stored in is 👨‍🍳 💏. All JD products should be like that, I think. Or have an admin file that can be saved like that. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/10 "2024-11-14T00:38:57Z")
100%. This is how I think of `00.00 The index` as a note: it should be all you need. The only note whose location you remember. From there, everything else should be explained/linked/etc. Good reminder for me to do this … if you see us slipping, it just means we forgot. Please remind us and we’ll correct course. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 12:40am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/11 "2024-11-14T00:40:11Z")
Interesting – we’re still working on `13 Money` but I’ll come back to this when we hit the 20s. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/12 "2024-11-14T00:41:57Z")
> [@hans](#): > > So in my mind, `23 Sales` and `24 Customers` can be pretty minimal. Just the ID, contact details, and whatever other notes. But in my experience, **not having that keeps me from doing effective administration** because I get duplicates and inconsistency. Yeah this feels right. Some of these places are just recognition that you need _a place_ to store that PDF you got. We’re just looking at the money stuff and thinking, you sign up for an Afterpay account. So from here on they’re just a payment mechanism you use: but you got that onboarding letter with your member number and you have to store it _somewhere_. So we’ll give you those places, even though they may be sparsely populated. That’s totally okay. ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/13 "2024-11-15T11:03:37Z")
> [@johnnydecimal](#): > > `10-19` is **internal** company admin. You can set a company up and be compliant and file taxes _and never have a product or a customer_. > > `20-29` is your customers (including those you haven’t won yet), marketing (to those not-yet-customers), and product (which makes no sense without someone to sell it to) including the research, building of said product(s), and selling it either directly, through channels, etc. Do you have a name for 20-29 yet? Suggestion: Enterprise. Or something else in the ‘entrepreneurship’ semantic realm. Internal company admin, is, indeed, something you can set up and organise all on your own, without doing anything risky. Entrepreneurship is in relation to the outside world – customers, for example, or ideas of others that you build on. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/14 "2024-11-16T02:40:12Z")
Not yet. It might be as simple as `20-29 Products, customers, marketing`. I personally don’t mind `Enterprise` – ‘the enterprise’ being a term in common use in commercial circles – but I fear that a significant percentage of people wouldn’t connect with it? ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2024, 6:48am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/15 "2024-11-16T06:48:52Z")
I think you’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/16 "2025-11-05T11:33:06Z")
as a web developer, I inevitably end up hosting services for customers at least temporarily, sometimes (unfortunately) permanently for a fee, with an SLA, either on my own server or at something like Netlify. A search in the SBS for `hosting` didn’t turn up this concept for me. I was mulling this over and for me, it might belong together with ‘shipping and fulfillment’. Because it’s not technically the _core business_ product or service I deliver, but it’s part of getting it into the hands of the customer or their customers’ hands. A piece of furniture gets literally shipped to a customer: software gets ‘shipped’ in the figurative sense used in the dev industry. Or have you considered this already @johnnydecimal and I’m not finding the words you used? I have a suspicion there will be a more ‘standard’ place this would fit in, but this is how my mind works. Other thoughts? EDIT: I guess it is really part of the _core business_. I dunno … curious what people’s gut reactions are to that distinction. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2025, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/17 "2025-11-05T22:18:13Z")
This one’s close to my heart. And I’ve bounced around between `14` & `21` for a lot of this stuff. `14` is for _your_ stuff. No customers should be there. That’s easy. So then where does this go? I think it’s just a product that you offer. Not the one you thought you’d be offering when you set up shop, but that’s how it’s turned out! 😆 The question is, exactly what are you looking to track? If it’s details of this ad-hoc product, `21`. But if it’s customer-specific implementation details, I’d probably be looking up at the top of the `30`s, yeah… ---
**Author:** ![hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/hans/32/719_2.png) [@hans](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/hans)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 7:17am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/18 "2025-11-09T07:17:53Z")
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think in general, that’s the way to go. I think what I’m looking for is a place for the _generic_ instructions and procedures for hosting. This is part of having the system **shape** my thoughts and actions, for my own good. I want to resist the urge to customize as much as possible, and remind myself that I probably deliver more value building the product in a way that can be shipped generically, than if I start building the shipment system myself (e.g.: can I build this so that it can be hosted on Netlify, rather than add features which will require a VPS?)\[1\] Obviously with custom software this will often cross the line. I want to help myself push that line out as far as possible. I like how physical shipment is so standardized. If I’m shipping spoons and cutting boards, I don’t have to think about driving around to all my customers. I just pack them in boxes and ping my package delivery company and they come round every other business day and take the boxes away (for example). So I think I’m going to put my generic hosting information together with that kind of details – as a kind of wishful thinking, if nothing else. * * * 1. Althought that doesn’t always work out … recently I tried really hard to use a CMS that would work with Netlify and Gitlab, but the whole setup was buggy and in the end hosting a CMS myself was simpler and better for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/user_avatar/forum.johnnydecimal.com/johnnydecimal/32/1759_2.png) [@johnnydecimal](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/u/johnnydecimal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/t/suggestions-box/1924/19 "2025-11-10T00:06:44Z")
So now I’m tempted back to `14`! I like my `14.32 External software & services` pattern where I’ve extended-the-end a whole bunch. ![z-CleanShot 2025-11-10 09-04-09@2x](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/uploads/default/original/2X/4/4221512eb7e3000bbd93cac39035090542d49df2.png) _(Working out in my own head whether there should be a space after the `+` so ignore that inconsistency.)_ And then: ![z-CleanShot 2025-11-10 09-05-10@2x](https://forum.johnnydecimal.com/uploads/default/original/2X/5/5dd633951311bc0e684488efdd474112dee35ed0.png) So in your case I’d probably start here, just documenting the base configuration of a thing. And if it graduates up to product world (or `24 Processes & procedures`?) later then so be it.